Ten things you shouldn’t say when pricing handmade items

26 Jan

PLEASE NOTE – comments are now off on this post. Should you wish to comment or to see the updated post, please go here – http://www.lifesbigcanvas.co.uk/ten-things-you-shouldnt-say-when-pricing-handmade-items/

 

I’ve been giving advice this week on pricing handmade items for selling. Not on purpose, just because it’s cropped up a couple of times. Working in a shop where people sell handmade items means it’s something which is bound to come up.

When I started selling handmade items, advice was thin on the ground. I tried reading some things online, but never really had someone to talk to in person. I also didn’t realise that my lack of knowledge was holding back my business, because people were bitching about me not being able to price properly behind my back, instead of just telling me what I was doing wrong, and I was missing opportunities.

This is why when I now see people underpricing their work, I tell them, and hopefully not in a patronising way, but because underpricing is undervaluing your own skill. To me, it’s not a big deal to say to someone their items are too cheap, and to help them work out the real price. It shouldn’t be a mystery, or a closely guarded secret! There are some things I’ve learned that I won’t share, due to the amount of time it took to research or learn, but pricing correctly isn’t one. Everyone pricing correctly helps EVERYONE, not just you – it helps the shops you sell in, other crafters and yourself. There can be bitchiness and backstabbing in the handmade community – undercutting your colleagues doesn’t go unnoticed, and people talk.

There are certain things which crop up every time I advise people on their prices – so to help you all out, here are the things I most often have to say to people.

1. I don’t think people will pay that

Number one on the list, and for good reason. You should never second guess your customer – you’re already making a leap guessing what they might want to buy in the first place, don’t try to guess their budget as well.

You should always work out how much you should charge, and then charge it. If no one buys it, try another outlet. Only after a few months, and/or a few different selling opportunities can you rightfully say, ‘this isn’t going to sell at this price, I need to put it on sale’.

2. I worked out how much I should charge and it was a ridiculous price, so I made it lower

Firstly, well done for working out the price! That’s one hurdle over.  However, charging a lower price means working out how much to charge was a waste of your time. I’m not trying to mean, I’m trying to make you value your time.

3.  I made it ages ago so I just want it out of the house

This came up yesterday – someone I know brought something into a shop near mine, and had marked it at far too low a price. I asked her why, and she said, ‘oh I made it ages ago’. My answer was, and always will be that that doesn’t matter.

If you’re taking something to a new stockist, their customer base don’t know you made it ages ago, or are sick of the sight of it. It might be the first thing they’ve ever seen of yours, they’ll fall in love with it… but then they have a fixed vision of what your prices are, and you’ve shot yourself in the foot. You can’t then explain to them that you made it ages ago, and your newer items are more expensive – to them, it was NEW and that’s how your items are priced.

I can sympathise with this in one instance – if you don’t have much storage space, you might be tempted to reduce your items to clearance prices too soon just because you’re running out of space. If this is happening to you, then try offering your items at lower than wholesale prices to your regular successful ‘sale or return’ stockists – they might jump at the chance to have your items in their shop at a higher mark-up.

4. My friend says this is the price they would pay

Asking friends how much they’d pay is a good idea – as long as you also work it out properly. Also, if you ask ten friends how much they’d pay, don’t just go for the lowest price. It’s a good idea to go somewhere in the middle as long as this is still the price you should be charging (or thereabouts). For example,  if you work out you should be charging £10, and your friends suggest prices ranging from £5 to £15, then the middle price of £10 is perfect – however, if your friends suggest £5-£10, then go for £10, don’t go down to £7.50.

5. I feel like I’m ripping people off if I charge more

A contentious issue, but think about it – if you get a tradesman fixing something in your house, you pay him, because that’s what he charges, and that’s what he’s worth. He doesn’t think, ‘hmm am I worth that though? She might be expecting to pay less.’ He gives you the quote, and you say yes or no.

This is exactly what you are doing by putting a price on your item.

You are saying ‘this is how much this costs’, and then the customer can say yes or no. You don’t have to justify it in any way – he isn’t telling you how much it costs him to keep his tools serviced and his certificates in order, so why do you start telling people why your item is cost as it is? Sure, tell people it’s a one-off, there’s only 5 ever made, or whatever makes that item SPECIAL, but you don’t have to tell them how much it costs you to hire a table at the craft fair you’re selling at to justify the price (I’ve actually overheard this happening).

6. It didn’t take me that long to make

Good for you – that’s probably because you’ve practised a lot, and been doing it a long time. Did you get paid for all that practice? No? Well now is when you DO. If I was to make a dress it would take me at least a couple of days, because I’m shit at sewing – I’m happy to pay someone £20 an hour to do it for me, cause I know it won’t take them much longer than two hours, and they know what they’re doing.

*edit to add*

I know most dresses take longer than two hours to make and dressmakers should be paid more than £20 an hour. I have a friend who makes clothes for me, and it takes her a couple of hours and I give her £20 an hour. I never expected this post to be spread so far and wide, and I really was talking about a particular situation I am in, not all dressmakers!If you re-read my sentence, I am talking about someone I personally pay £20 an hour, and it only takes her a couple of hours. I am not intending to undervalue dressmakers!

7. I just enjoy making it, I don’t care how much I get for it

That’s excellent, you have a hobby which people want to buy from you. However, if there are people who make a living doing what you do as a hobby, please charge the same as they do. I know that sounds mean, I really know it does, and I can’t think of a good metaphor.

Let’s say, for argument’s sake, that you have a friend who is a hairdresser, and you’ve decided to take up as a hobby cutting hair. You keep your regular job, but on the side you cut hair, and you charge less than your hairdresser friend. It doesn’t matter because it’s your hobby, you enjoy it, and anything you get is good enough – but your friend who does it for a living is being put out of work by your hobby because she has to charge less as the value of hairdressing becomes diluted by people doing it at home. She has paid for training to do what she does, and years of practice to be as good as she is, but people will still question why she charges what she does when you are charging less. She also hasn’t got another income to supplement her hairdressing, this is her whole career.

This may sound extreme, and as I say, I couldn’t think of a decent metaphor. However, I will use scrabble tile necklaces as an example, as I don’t make them any more, and this never happened. I use to charge £10, as I’d worked out this was the price they needed to be – if someone then came along, who made them as a hobby, and sold them for £6, it would impact on my sales. The price would still cover their costs (I would be wholesaling them at £5 after all, so I have to know my costs are covered at that price) so they think they’re being fair, but as mine are £10, people wonder why I seem to be ripping them off.

Which brings us to…

8. *person A* sells it for £x

You shouldn’t use someone else’s price as comparison, unless you’re selling like for like at the same price. You should never think ‘I’m not as good as person A so I need to sell it for less’. If it is the same thing, you must sell it at the same price.I learnt this the hard way – I made an item at the start of my selling life, and sold them for £2, because I thought this was the right price. I found out someone else was selling the same thing for £5, and instead of thinking I should put the price up, I thought, ‘but I’m not as good as them, I should keep the price where it is’. The person who made this same item found out, and thought I was undercutting them on purpose, when I was actually thinking they were better than me. I was undervaluing myself, but hurting someone who I respected in the process.

I shouldn’t have to say this, but I feel I should – You should never sell it at £2 on purpose because person A sells it at £5 and you want to steal their customers.

9. It’s OK for you, people will pay more for one of your items

I find it hard to believe that anyone thinks I can charge more simply because I made it, but I have had someone say this to me. All I can say is this – a name can carry weight when pricing something, otherwise designer clothes wouldn’t exist, but there aren’t many crafters who can charge more just because they’ve made it. BELIEVE ME.

10. The materials were just hanging around

Therefore the material cost is nothing, and making your price far too low? WRONG! The material cost is not how much the material cost you this time – it’s how much it will cost you to replace it.

So if you make, for example, a cushion from a piece of fabric someone gave you, it doesn’t mean you don’t add in the cost of the fabric – it means you add in the cost of replacing that fabric. This is hard to get your head round, but I have learnt this from pricing making stock out of donated and recycled items. For example, I might get given a lot of books by someone for nothing to make vases out of, but I always factor in the cost of having to buy a book – usually it’s just as if I bought a cheap one from a charity shop for a quid – but you can see the parallel I hope. Just because that fabric was hanging around, you can’t charge £5 less for a cushion, or next time your customer will wonder why this cushion is £5 more expensive than the last one.

So what do you all think? I know how difficult it is to value yourself, and how much easier it is to see someone else’s stock and see that they’re undervaluing themselves, so maybe if we all watch out for each other, and make each other feel good we can create an even nicer handmade/crafting family.

Thank you for reading this far. I am so happy that something I wrote last year has become useful. I now blog on my main website
so you can find even more stuff over there.

I feel I have to answer criticism that I have not made thousands of sales and therefore I shouldn’t be regarding myself as an expert.

Not once have I ever said I’m an expert. On anything. This is my experiences from owning a shop, working in other shops, and running a website selling items. My Folksy and Etsy sales might together number less than 300 (thanks for adding it up for me), but neither of those sites are my main sources of income. I have sold in shops for 5 years, on my own website for 4 years, and had my own shop selling other people’s items for 3 years. If I thought I knew everything, I would be an incredibly dull person.

This guide is meant as a way to make crafters value themselves, not to tell you how to price. There are loads of pricing guides out there, written by people more ‘successful’ than me. I highly recommend you read one of those. My whole life is about making people value their time, not telling them that I am the pinnacle of success and you should do what I do. I hope that helps some of you who have been annoyed with me.

Further edit – I’m very flattered to be asked if you can reproduce this blog. If you’d like to print this out for your craft group, that is absolutely fine. If you want to quote me anywhere else, I’d appreciate being quoted and referenced, rather than you changing the words slightly and then not referencing me. Thanks!

Photograph credit -Poppy Thorn (alt model) and Miss Affleck (photography)

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118 Responses to “Ten things you shouldn’t say when pricing handmade items”

  1. Such good advice and I am guilty of saying most of those things to myself about myself. Taking on board and bookmarking this page Chloe 🙂

  2. Nicola Wood 03/02/2014 at 11:51 pm #

    Thank you for writing this! I have just started selling my makes online and literally five minutes ago I had somebody say ‘£30? Thats a bit much for one cushion’! It really rattled me! Reading your article made me feel soooo much better!

    • Judy Soccio 10/02/2015 at 6:12 pm #

      Nicola, next time someone says, “That’s a bit much” mentally add, “for you to pay” because what they are really saying is “I can’t afford this item but I want it so you should sell it to me for less. ” Can’t do that when buying a car or a house, but somehow artists and craftspeople are supposed to work for peanuts.

  3. Angel in Training 28/03/2014 at 4:39 pm #

    As a student of professional crafts in ceramics, I’ve taken craft marketing. We were taught to figure our costs, including materials, marketing, utilities required for creation and add that to a set hourly wage multiplied by time invested in creation. As a ceramicist, an hourly wage for my work is $1/ hour. As I become more known, my hourly wage could go upto $25/hour. We are reminded to really examine our cost, and not overlook overhead.

  4. Jo-Anna 29/03/2014 at 6:17 am #

    Excellent article. I have recently re-priced my products so that I know exactly what they cost me to make and how much I am selling them for. I have been back and forth on some prices because I wasn’t sure of the cost but now I’ve standardized all of my pricing. I was concerned because I found out I was actually losing money on one product because the cost of materials had increased (eek!) and I was worried that charging more would make people less inclined to buy it. It turns out to have had no effect at all. People are still happy to pay for it. The other great benefit is that I can stand behind my pricing and I know for myself why things are priced as they are (though I never explain it!). I love the point about pricing what we are worth is something that we ALL benefit from. Hopefully we (crafters) will soon be valued as tilers or other people who work with their hands where no one bats and eye at paying $50 an hour!!!

  5. say it 19/06/2014 at 11:01 am #

    This is one of the best articles on pricing I have read. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom – and thank you for not doing the usual ‘here’s a formula’ post about pricing. Getting your prices right is so important if you want people to take you seriously.

  6. Annette's Atelier 01/08/2014 at 9:45 am #

    Wow- I don’t think I ever recognised myself in an article so many times- My friends always tell me: You sell your designs too cheap! but I’m too scared to increase the price for almost all the reasons you mentioned- I feel much better about that now!! Thanks thanks thanks!

  7. Deb 30/12/2014 at 7:19 pm #

    Thank you… i am guilty as charged of saying most if not all of those things too.

  8. Chic Mona 19/01/2015 at 6:03 pm #

    Whoa, thanks , I really needed this. It’s so true. I’ve been guilty of all 10. It’s time for me to listen to others.~cheers Mona

  9. Helen Rooney 09/02/2015 at 3:30 am #

    Yes, many people said one of my items was too cheap so I took the plunge, increased the price by 50% and they still sold well, so ended up doubling the original price and they are still selling well. Now I make decent money from them whereas before I was begrudging even making them and wanted to stop. Now the scope and span and interest in them is growing 🙂

  10. Vickie 09/02/2015 at 4:05 am #

    Thank you. I hope you don’t mind but I am copying this and putting it in my personal for my use business book. I’ll send anyone else who is feeling any of these things to your site. Book mark!

  11. hgwjewelry 09/02/2015 at 5:37 am #

    I have had my shop online for five years. I have no qualms about reducing my prices in the hope my jewelry will sell. After five years of listing the correct price and only having 35 sales, I think it is time to discount so I can create something different that might sell.

  12. Martha's Modes Millinery 09/02/2015 at 10:47 am #

    Thank you for this! However, there are ‘crafters’ out there, who ask for advice on business pages about how much they should be charging – get reams of advice from people who are doing it for a living and then still charge low rates for their items. Annoying is not the word for it………………….

  13. K 09/02/2015 at 10:09 pm #

    I only disagree with #8. Looking at others’ prices is a good way to see how much people will pay. If I’m charging $2 more than someone for the same thing, I’ll lower it to the exact same price as the other person so I’m not overcharging. Sometimes I charge too much for stuff since I’m relatively new to this sort of thing.
    Although all the other points are really good and I’ve definitely said all of them myself.

  14. Annoyed 09/02/2015 at 11:08 pm #

    Great points for a perfect world, but you have a poor understanding of the price elasticity of demand and retail in general. You’ve only made 300 sales between etsy and folksy. It hardly makes you an expert by any stretch of the imagination.
    Encouraging people to hold on to a pipe dream price for months is ridiculous. The moment you decide to sell what you make, you make the move from being a “crafter” to being a “business” and you should adapt your thinking. If something isn’t selling. Drop your prices sell what you have quickly and re invest in your next project. It’s basic business 101.

    • peskychloe 12/02/2015 at 11:20 am #

      I am not holding myself up as an expert in selling. I am just giving my view of something I keep hearing time and time again. I do actually cover if something isn’t selling, then sell it off and move on in other pieces I’ve written.
      Thanks for your comments though

  15. Gonzo 09/02/2015 at 11:17 pm #

    You see this often on online sites with artists taking commissions. It’s the typical race to the bottom, which is particularly bad when it crosses international borders. I’ve heard of people accepting commission work from what they later found out were people acting on behalf of companies, ending up getting paid cents per hour even though both the company and the artist were in the US, because they compete against kids who are “just learning” or artists in countries with a much lower cost of living (or standard of living).

    And this is on top of the bargain mindset, where people see you made something out of a recognizable object, then set a mental value based on the recognizable object or worse, the effort THEY put into getting it. As a programmer, seeing people set a value on software based on how much effort it takes to download is why I am unwilling to listen to all the friends and family that push the “why don’t you write this app I just thought of” pipe dream.

  16. Caroel Russell 09/02/2015 at 11:17 pm #

    This discussion came up at our crafters network group tonight so I was able to copy the link and let everyone read it. Great advice! Thankyou!

  17. Christy 10/02/2015 at 4:19 am #

    Thank you so much for writing this! It is true that as crafters, we often undervalue our own handmade work and find excuses to price things low. But it doesn’t help us or anyone else in the long run. If every crafter priced things wisely, then it actually helps everyone else, as you pointed out. Thank you!

  18. thelittledarkpoet 10/02/2015 at 5:52 am #

    brilliant. this is so true. i believe as with all trades we under value our own ability. we look to others to give us some idea on out value instead of looking at out true worth. You did miss one “most of iit was made while sitting in front of the TV so i cant include labour hours in the price”

  19. vitalPA 10/02/2015 at 8:36 am #

    Excellent advice – mostly relevant for all small businesses, not just crafting. Whatever your line of business, people always want something for nothing. I didn’t learn to be a PA yesterday, or even last week. I’ve been doing this for *cough* 25 years!! I’ve learned from others, undertook training, moved roles, gained experience. My view… if folk don’t want to pay for my skills, so be it. Someone else will, and generally does. Ponder this additional bit of advice – if your price is too low, people will always wonder about the quality of the service or product you are supplying.

  20. kate 10/02/2015 at 10:11 am #

    Excellent post – I’m one of the organisers of a big craft fair (as well as a knitter and spinner), and so often we have problems with people and pricing. One regular smallholder underprices everyone else using number 10 as her reasoning – I will reinforce the message…!

  21. mhensh 10/02/2015 at 10:57 am #

    Such a refreshing line of thinking.

    As a Creative Industries business coach, I deal with this all the time. I ask my clients two questions 1) Would you rather do more for less or less for more? 2) Do you really expect people to value you/your skills/your product more highly than you do?

    Of course I also advise them to add something that makes their proposition unique. We operate in an increasingly competitive marketplace. Whatever it is we do, it’s likely someone else IS doing it. We can set ourselves apart though, by adding something that’s uniquely ‘us’, even even that’s just down to the service we give.

    Michele
    michelehenshaw.com

  22. Andrea Moorcroft 10/02/2015 at 11:47 am #

    This is a really good and well thought out article. A lot of the points really resonated and made perfect sense! I have been guilty of several of the those in the past! New venture new mindset and new pricing structure this time around though! Thanks for sharing

  23. BagelWoman 10/02/2015 at 1:44 pm #

    Someone just shared this and I’ve passed it along. It’s one of the best such articles I’ve read, and I’m totally guilty of having said these things.

  24. Jenni (Mom2Two) 10/02/2015 at 1:47 pm #

    I say most of these things as well! I need this kick in the pants to get me back on track! If people didn’t like my work, then they wouldn’t ask me to keep doing it! Several times I’ve given the price for an order of cards and the person gives me more! sometimes A LOT more! I’ll have to seriously sit down and re-calculate pricing! Thanks so much!!

  25. crochetrox 10/02/2015 at 3:19 pm #

    Reblogged this on Crochet Rox and commented:
    Some GREAT advice here on pricing your handmade items!!!

  26. Jessica Daines 10/02/2015 at 3:19 pm #

    Great article. I totally agree with all points 100%. It took me a long time to stop doing some of these things and start valuing my work properly. Pricing is difficult but once you start going at it with the right attitude, it all works out well 🙂

  27. crochetrox 10/02/2015 at 3:19 pm #

    Great advice. I reblogged this, I think it’s an important message.

  28. The Snail of Happiness 10/02/2015 at 3:37 pm #

    Thank you – a really useful reminder… and very timely for me

  29. Rach 10/02/2015 at 4:54 pm #

    perfectly valid for the sole trader starting up in any business.
    I kept my fees too low for too long and now I see that I harmed my own business way more than I helped it.
    RB (garden services)

  30. ukcrochetpatterns 10/02/2015 at 6:01 pm #

    Reblogged this on UK Crochet Patterns.

  31. Kitty 10/02/2015 at 6:43 pm #

    I so agree. I wish I could get my hubby to understand this and believe in himself. I’ve been trying for years.

  32. Mary Ladwog 10/02/2015 at 6:51 pm #

    Thank you! Good to appreciate our skills and workmanship. These are things we don’t think of.

  33. notewords 10/02/2015 at 8:13 pm #

    Excellent advice. I love the examples!

  34. Ls 10/02/2015 at 8:31 pm #

    Excellent info.

  35. Buttuncraft 10/02/2015 at 8:49 pm #

    Great article, definitely food for thought thanks

  36. Morag Gaherty 10/02/2015 at 9:16 pm #

    Slightly off topic, I went to see a therapist a few years ago. When I came to pay, she just asked me to pay what I thought the session was worth…a horrendous policy, in my opinion, because it effectively asks the user to judge the value of her service for themselves, without any guidelines. In the end, I left £20, because it was all I had on me, but I would feel awkward about going there again.

  37. yarnchick40 10/02/2015 at 10:08 pm #

    Awesome post! We all need to be reminded of these things 🙂
    Cheers

  38. daisymarmalade 10/02/2015 at 10:25 pm #

    This is a very useful resource for small business people. The only bit that made me wince was your comment on having a dress made. A quick word to a handful of dressmakers will give you a more accurate figure – just a friendly suggestion! Thanks, Katharine needle&threadSmith ❤

  39. Marla Cardona 10/02/2015 at 11:38 pm #

    Great article, thanks!

  40. Rinske 10/02/2015 at 11:38 pm #

    This was extremely helpful advice. I’m releasing a crochet hat pattern Friday that I worked on for a month. I already had a price in mind that I think is fair – then one of my testers said she would probably not pay that price for the pattern (just because of her personal budget priorities). So I was making up my mind to price it a little lower today…and then I came across this post and now I’m thinking ‘Screw it! I’m going to charge what it’s worth.’ :). Big thank you!

  41. Meriel Barber 10/02/2015 at 11:45 pm #

    Good words, excellent reminders for all professional artists, artisans and crafty folks. The biggest hurdle I often face is dealing with someone who says….so and so only charges x amount…my best rebuttal in these cases is…that is wonderful, my prices reflect real costs, time and energy and skill level. If I truly consider myself a professional why should i be treating my work as if it were created by a novice?

  42. Shirley 11/02/2015 at 12:05 am #

    great advice. Thanks for taking time to post about it.

  43. Sayard McQuade 11/02/2015 at 12:23 am #

    Weird, all these tips encourage people to increase the prices of their hand-made goods, I find that every hand-made craft I come across is ridiculously overpriced to the extent that I would never buy it. lol!

  44. Tess S 11/02/2015 at 12:53 am #

    I agree with most of your advice but sometimes people price things based on what the market will bear where they live. Someone might be able to charge $30 for a scarf in one area and someone else may not be able to get more than $15 for it. I don’t think people can continually worry about what someone else is charging. People will pay for quality. If you and I make the same thing it doesn’t matter if I charge less than you if my quality is poor. I once paid $150 for a hair cut and perm. I told the stylist 3 times that I wanted my hair cut BEFORE the perm because I know how dry my hair can be and how it frizzes. I also told her I wanted bangs. I walked out of there with knotted up, frizzy hair, no bangs, and she didn’t get a tip. Never went back. I would rather get a cut for $20 from someone who listens to me than someone who doesn’t. Bottom line is this…people are always going to value themselves and their product differently and they have to do what works for them. You will never walk into 2 different stores and find things priced exactly the same. Do you think Walmart is concerned with how Nieman Marcus prices things? Quality is different and customers are aware of that. They are going to spend what they can afford to and your needing to make a full time living from what you do is not going to trump their wanting to find a good deal. We all want our money to go as far as possible.

  45. amanda l 11/02/2015 at 2:04 am #

    this hits home plate for me. me and my friend are in the middle of remodeling our shop and our prices are changing. and this article is absolutely perfect! thank you for writing this because it gives me the push we really need to get our shop of the ground where its been for years now. the clients we used to have are going for things that arent handmade from larger home business like paparazzi and such where everything is $5.

    i have definitely done all of these before and it is a welcome wake-up call. thank you

  46. Kiti Williams 11/02/2015 at 2:25 am #

    I make things from recycled supplies, there is a massive amount of time in just getting the materials from the raw state to a workable one! THEN I have to factor in the time to make the item! Most people will not pay the amounts that I list for the finished items, but then – I don’t have to sell to them either. I enjoy the process, and have enough “mystery” surrounding the whole thing to keep any serious competition away.

  47. Perri Jackson 11/02/2015 at 5:04 am #

    Thanks so much for this article! Although my inner anxious artist has thought some ot these thoughts from time to time, I am proud to say that I have totally ignored her and stuck to my pricing guns, LOL
    But other really wonderful craftspeople regularly undercut the whole market with extremely fine workmanship at a price which cannot possibly be creating profit. When they are encouraged to at least examine their pricing, the 11th ‘not to say’ thing comes out : ” I’m charging what the market will pay. If I raise the price, no one will buy it.’

    No one is crass or unkind enough to say directly that the people are undercutting, but it is implied, or that perhaps they don’t realize. At one point, the suggestion was made that they are actually teaching their customers to expect cheap – which is probably the case. I find it interesting that people will totally ignore the irrefutable truth of the balance sheet.
    I’m passing this on in hopes that these people might be gently brought to far more success for all of us. Thanks again!!!

  48. heidithehooker 11/02/2015 at 5:19 am #

    I am or have been guilty of more than one.. and sometimes, it’s because I listen to non-maker friends say “Are you kidding? I would never pay that much for that!” =-(

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